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Old 01-05-2018, 14:51   #91
Enoch Powell
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There were targets and there were fuck-ups, but it doesn't follow that the existence of targets means there has to be fuck-ups.

If you think it does, you are arguing that targets per se, for anything, are inherently bad.
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Old 01-05-2018, 14:52   #92
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In any case, it's clear that the targets were not motivated by 'racism' on behalf of the government. The idea that a government which puts the red carpet out to 650k immigrants a year, mostly non-white, is silly.
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Old 01-05-2018, 14:59   #93
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It depends how appropriate targets are and what they could lead to. If a salesman is targeted with flogging 20 cars in a month then it's not life and death.

But in this case, it led to people not being able to receive medical treatment, or made homeless, or lose their jobs when they had done nothing wrong. If the targets did not exist and each case was judged on its merits, then it's far less likely this would have happened.
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Old 01-05-2018, 15:10   #94
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It also depends whether there was a punishment for not meeting the targets. Whether it was carrot and stick, or just carrot.

ie. if the civil servants faced disciplinary action for not meeting targets, then I would agree that the targets caused these problems. Although really it wouldn't be the targets per se in that case, but the existence of the punishment.

I know Job Centres have apparently had such a regime where staff are expected to sanction a certain number of people. Which has led to people being sanctioned for little or no good reason.

May and Rudd are both horribly fucking incompetent, of that there's no doubt... and doubtless didn't exercise any proper oversight, or forethought to anticipate these issues occurring.
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Old 01-05-2018, 15:11   #95
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I don't think there's anything wrong with a target in of itself, the problem lies in that the culture and strategies surrounding the target. As well as the attitudes in setting and failing to hitting the target, it's like caring about short term football results rather than caring about performances which lead to better long term outcomes. If they can hit their targets by being lazy and hitting people who are in the system but lack certain paperwork then that is obviously wrong. They're targetting low lying fruit where they should really be devoting resources to pipelines of illegal workers and the areas they operate. Ironically I suspect this 'scandal' where they've been seen to be racist is quite possibly because the front line authorities would rather not risk being called racist by investigations into ethnic employers when they can simply just follow up possible red flags in someone's paperwork where the real problem cases probably have no paper trail whatsoever.
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Old 01-05-2018, 15:18   #96
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Anyone who's had the misfortune of dealing with government agencies knows how incompetent / negligent they are; it's par for the course. A while back I made a payment to the HMRC for back NI contributions, which they are supposed to credit your NI record with. They cashed the cheque but didn't update the record, or send me a receipt - which their own website promises they do if you ask for one, which I had. I had to phone them several times, waiting ages each time, to get someone to manually update my record. I was again promised over the phone I'd be sent a receipt.

I never was.

Why does the receipt matter? Well, for one reason, if government can 'forget' the nationality of people who've lived here since the 50s, or even were born here, they can certainly 'forget' my NI record when it's time to pay my pension.

Unfortunately I'm only a white male, so I can't play any race card, I just have to get on with it.
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Old 23-05-2018, 16:28   #97
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Now a white Danish woman who's lived here for 40 years has fallen foul of the same broken system. Again demonstrating the system is not 'racist', merely dysfunctional.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...40-years-in-uk
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Old 23-05-2018, 18:53   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Powell View Post
Now a white Danish woman who's lived here for 40 years has fallen foul of the same broken system. Again demonstrating the system is not 'racist', merely dysfunctional.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...40-years-in-uk
If she said she was on the banana boat then she would have gained citizenship.

She doesn't need it anyway, more shit liberal democrat headline grabbing. Maybe she should say they rejected her because she is a woman.
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Old 23-05-2018, 20:05   #99
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it's all bollocks
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