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Old 14-02-2018, 12:41   #71
Malcolm Tucker
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stag has gone all nationalist now though innit, probably got mugged by a foreigner on his holidays or something
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Old 14-02-2018, 12:53   #72
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Supporting any team is basically saying you belong to that particular tribe, and have an emotional attachment to it. It's not just about local rivalry like Man City vs Man Utd.
the next step in Stag's red pill transformation to becoming fully woke will be difficult, but necessary

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Old 14-02-2018, 13:31   #73
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Supporting any team is basically saying you belong to that particular tribe, and have an emotional attachment to it. It's not just about local rivalry like Man City vs Man Utd.
What's wrong with tribalism anyway? It seems fine for every other group to have some sort of group identity?

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stag has gone all nationalist now though innit, probably got mugged by a foreigner on his holidays or something
How am I more nationalist than I was before travelling?

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the next step in Stag's red pill transformation to becoming fully woke will be difficult, but necessary

LOLIT'SALLTHEJEWS
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Old 14-02-2018, 14:25   #74
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It seems fine for every other group to have some sort of group identity?
LOL you obviously haven't read the news for the last few hundred years
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Old 14-02-2018, 15:04   #75
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I think as long as someone's individuality is respected in the tribe, then a certain amount of collectivity is a good. Just because someone has a 'tribe' doesn't mean they want to destroy the other tribes. It's this simplistic analysis of Nationalism that people succumb to, as if caring about your nation means you want to see all others cower in its wake.

Obviously football is one of society's bread and circuses to distract the mob, but it's still entertaining.

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Old 14-02-2018, 15:19   #76
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Patriotism is one thing (pride and positive sense of identity etc), nationalism IMO takes it a bit further and is always linked heavily to people who actually believe their nationality is superior to others and that what flag you have can justify what rights you may or may not have over other flags.

The reason why I said earlier you've gone nationalist in recent times is because you have, if we take one example; other day you said "I have empathy for the people of Britain before I do for migrants" - you're entitled to think that way, but it's a nationalist sentiment, treating/seeing people worse if they're not your nationality. That's pretty much the opposite to the kind of philosophy you used to have about treating all people the same etc. Not sure why you're suggesting your views haven't changed tbh, it's quite obvious. In fact I think think you've already acknowledged it already a few times, responding with 'well I'm less naive now' or something.
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Old 14-02-2018, 15:54   #77
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Patriotism is one thing (pride and positive sense of identity etc)
Never understand why people have to belong to a "group" to have a sense of pride and identity
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Old 14-02-2018, 16:26   #78
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Patriotism is one thing (pride and positive sense of identity etc), nationalism IMO takes it a bit further and is always linked heavily to people who actually believe their nationality is superior to others and that what flag you have can justify what rights you may or may not have over other flags.
I don't think Britons are superior and I don't think that's what nationalism is.

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The reason why I said earlier you've gone nationalist in recent times is because you have, if we take one example; other day you said "I have empathy for the people of Britain before I do for migrants" - you're entitled to think that way, but it's a nationalist sentiment, treating/seeing people worse if they're not your nationality.
Would you have empathy for your family before a stranger? I believe hospitality is a good thing but there is a limit.

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That's pretty much the opposite to the kind of philosophy you used to have about treating all people the same etc. Not sure why you're suggesting your views haven't changed tbh, it's quite obvious. In fact I think think you've already acknowledged it already a few times, responding with 'well I'm less naive now' or something.
I'd call to treat citizens the same, should a non-citizen just rock up and have the same access to our social safety nets? I'd rather our collective was in a position to help those needing help who are already here, if we try to help everyone we end up helping no-one.
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Old 14-02-2018, 16:28   #79
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Obviously football is one of society's bread and circuses to distract the mob, but it's still entertaining.

At some point you'll probably find it no longer entertains you. I found that once I saw it for what it was, and recognised how pointless it all is, the appeal didn't last much longer.
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Old 14-02-2018, 16:57   #80
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I don't think Britons are superior and I don't think that's what nationalism is.
But clearly many nationalists do, to the point your view of it may actually be a minority. It's even listed as part of the definition of it. Even if many don't explicitly say it and may fall back on WEASEL WORDS when challenged directly if they think their flag is besterest, but it always, ALWAYS manifests in other ways, like people saying shit like 'British values' which implies some kind of monopoly of good, virtue, or spirit attributed to you based upon your passport rather than what kind of person you actually are.

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Would you have empathy for your family before a stranger? I believe hospitality is a good thing but there is a limit.
Yep, of course I would, but that's not comparable because I wouldn't treat two family members differently if they were born in different countries, they'd just be family. You can love your family and be liberal/nationalist/whatever.

In this situation nobody was asking you to compare family to immigrants, it was nameless Brits and nameless migrants, the only thing different about them is their passport and you were ok with using that as the metric in which to assign empathy.


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I'd call to treat citizens the same, should a non-citizen just rock up and have the same access to our social safety nets? I'd rather our collective was in a position to help those needing help who are already here, if we try to help everyone we end up helping no-one.
Of course but again you widen the point as much as possible until the stage you may as well be saying you want to help good people more than bad people and acting like we're all thick for disagreeing. The point made at the time was far more specific, and was about young refugees escaping conflicts, conflicts we've helped cause, and if we are ok with letting them perish on our borders or if there's room in our position to find something in between turning our backs on them and allowing every single person in Africa to have a free house here. I think there is more we can do without spacking out and suggesting it's one extreme or the other.
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